Projo Politics Blog

By John E. Mulligan
Journal Washington bureau

The latest batch of President Richard M. Nixon's White House tapes contains an exchange that is not only topical, it also has a great Rhode Island angle.

The conversation between the President and Chuck Colson, his chief counsel, takes place after Nixon's landslide reelection in 1972 and concerns the politics of filling jobs with people from various voting blocs -- including blacks, Italians, Jews and Catholics. When they discussed the need to have some Italian names in the new administration, Nixon and Colson naturally found one from what was proportionately the nation's most Italian state.

Republican Herbert F. DeSimone had served two terms as Rhode Island's attorney general and had just lost a gubernatorial bid to Democrat Philip Noel. The Nixon-Colson conversation was first reported by the Wall Street Journal after this week's release of another 200 hours of the secretly recorded tapes. Excerpts follow:

Nixon: Well if you¹ve got a candidate, what we need there, Godammit Chuck,
we haven't got an Italian yet. I can¹t find any.

Colson: Did Bob mention the [foreign adviser John] Scali idea to you? Could
be at the U.N.

Nixon: Instead of the black?

Colson: Instead of the black. Who the hell cares about the blacks? Scali
would love the U.N. That would give you an Italian in the cabinet. At least
it's a thought. And he's a legitimate Italian. A good Italian.

Nixon: You know, basically, we don't owe the blacks a damn thing anyway.

Colson: Oh hell, no. As a matter of fact, I think it's a bad signal to put a
black in the Cabinet. The people that voted for us­ (Laughs)

Nixon: And after all, this pampering of blacks isn't a good idea. I think
you've got a good point there.

Colson: If we appoint a black in the cabinet in the second term and we
didn't have one in the first term, people are going to say, 'My God, they're
moving­.

Nixon: That's right ... But I think your idea about the U.N. makes a hell of a lot of sense.

Colson: Well, it's just a suggestion.

Nixon: No, but why put a black in there? Why do it? Why?

Colson: I wouldn't do it. I would deliberately not put a black in a position
that­ --

Nixon: As a matter of fact, I don't see any reason­. We've got our black in.­
Keep a few in the administration­ You can¹t­ You can't be in position
where you just turn your backs on them, totally.

Colson: Oh no no. But I think this much, Mr. President: You were just
elected with one of the biggest landslides in history. But with no better
participation from the blacks...

Coming back, Mr. President, the only Italian I know in the country,
who­ -- . Now that's a terrible statement. (Laughs) The only Italian I know in
the country who is political is Herb DeSimone in Rhode
Island. He's a terribly able young man. ...

I don't know about this fellow [economist Robert] Lanzilotti on the
Price Commission. He's­ -- I know nothing about him. But he's got a damn good
Italian name. We could find, Mr. President­ If you gave us the assignment to
find a good Italian.

Nixon: Well, if you've got a hell of a good Italian businessman, we could
put him in [the Department of] Commerce.

Colson: Also, Mr. President, you could handle the Italian problem in other
ways.

 Tags  Herbert DeSimone Nixon tapes President Nixon

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